On January 3, 2014, Lyndon LaRouche and Matt Ogden engaged in a dialogue concerning the deadly potential for thermonuclear confrontation in 2014 –that dialogue represents a revolution in thinking through, and acting to prevent, the potential war of extinction now facing humanity. The LaRouche/Ogden webcast dialogue completely and clearly exposes the underlying historical causes of the present U.S./ Trans-Atlantic breakdown, the means to reverse it, and the actual means to stop the outbreak of war.
LaRouche’s following opening remarks were spurned on by a question on the destruction of the American labour force which is now touching 25% in real unemployment figures. The questioner asked LaRouche about his analysis of the U.S. economy under the remaining time of Obama’s term in office and asked how a solution to the crisis could be arranged.
The Full webcast may be viewed here: www.larouchepac.com/node/29427
LaRouche replies…
There will never be a survival of the United States within the nominal term of Obama’s Presidency. What you have, is you have many people—for example, probably 60% of the voters in the United States are opposed to Obama, and wish he would go away. The problem is, they’re terrified. And Snowden’s case tells you partly a good illustration of what the fear is. So, therefore, they hate Obama. But many people hated Hitler—and remember that. The ability of Hitler to do what he did, did not depend upon the issue of a majority of what people thought they wanted to see. They gave in to Hitler, under a reign of terror, and the history of that is well-known to some of us, even of your age.
So, therefore we have to eliminate all these cheerful things, and trying to put a cheerful note, and talk about a possible solution. There is, and are solutions, but none of them are being put forthcoming, now. You have something in Germany which may tend to be a break-out.
What’s the situation? We’re not going to have, under Obama, continued under the present policy, Obama will not be the President of the United States. He is on the end of this thing. He’s unimportant! This is not an election campaign. The election campaign was made a long time ago, when people came in with the green policy. It came in, actually, with the ouster of Bismarck, because when Bismarck was kicked out, from that moment on the world in general, especially the trans-Atlantic region, has been engaged in off-again, on-again continuation of world war. That’s what the truth has been.
Just think of the history. Very shortly: How do wars start? Well, the war that we’re talking about started with the assassination of the President of France. Then it came to another one. And then you had the war involving China, Japan, and so forth. It kept coming, and coming, and coming. And then, in 1914, the Guns of August, we had aworld war. But it didn’t end there! There was a peace of a certain kind; it wastemporary. The United States shot back, with President Kennedy, later, as they had done earlier, but all these things didn’t stop.
For example, Kennedy’s success, boosted by Eleanor Roosevelt, actually turned the tide in a certain direction. When the tide began to turn, they killed him! They murdered him! and tried to cover up the assassination, and did fairly successfully.
What happened then? On the successful execution of President Kennedy, we had a war start in Indochina. For the first couple of years, it was considered a war. After that, it was a called a drug orgy. And the drug orgy then took over the United States. And if you want to take from the time that Kennedy was assassinated, within that very period, since that time, the United States and its population has been degenerating intellectually and morally. And that’s the present condition today.
Now, this condition is leading to what? What’s on the table now? Genocide: possibly human extinction within a matter—it could come in a matter of weeks now, or it could come in a longer period of time. We’re on the edge of a thermonuclear war.
Now, a thermonuclear war is nothing to compare with what had happened in the earlier wars—World War I, World War II. These were minor events compared to what’s about to happen right now.
And it’s being pushed. Look at the line-up! You have the trans-Atlantic region. Now, the trans-Atlantic as a whole is now in a process of accelerated rates of degeneration. The United States is now economically hopelessly and socially degenerating, and the rate of degeneration is going to accelerate. Everything you thought was bad in recent experience is going to become much worse, and very quickly. It could become very quickly.
Now, in the meantime you’ve got war looking around. You have a line-up of powers. First of all, you have the trans-Atlantic region is the concentration of one side of a world power. The core of that thing is the British Empire, the Anglo-Dutch Empire, headed up nominally by the Queen. The Queen’s intention has been—as she has made public since the Copenhagen conference—her intention has been to reduce the human population from 7 billion persons, which it had been approaching just recently, is now in a process of accelerated rate of decline. And in the case of the United States, in the case of most countries in western and central Europe, most countries, most of this world is accelerating: it’s dying. Portugal, Spain. France is now in the process of collapsing, degenerating. It’s going, too. Southern Italy. The Greek population. The only part of the western European, or western and central European part which has an option in that region, is Germany, and they’re fussing around on that issue right now. Germany is inclined to disengage itself from the rest of western Europe, because the rest of western Europe is dying—expect for the Anglo-Dutch region, which ain’t doing too good in terms of their economy there.
All right, now you’ve got another part of the world. Let’s call it the Eurasian part of the world. We have to call it Eurasian because it includes Russia and nations associated with it. And it goes all the way to the Pacific Ocean. This is the Eurasian part of the world. The Eurasian part of the world, except for certain areas that we know about in the Near East and so forth, and from the Uyghurs and people like that, the entirety of this Eurasian region, as an entirety, with the dominant forces within it, is actually on the way up. It has been increasing its technological power and capabilities.
The Moon landing! Now, we’ve discussed that here, and in our own discussions in other places. The Moon landing, the latest one, goes to the question of Helium-3: thermonuclear fusion. And that means that suddenly we have a major power, China, which has a major capability, which is not merely a tickle of the type the United States did on the Moon before. This is a really serious business. They set up an operation, for an extended operation into space, and for other kinds of things. And they are working what had been known before as a Helium-3 potential of the Moon. If they exploit the Helium-3 in the Moon, suddenly China and nations cooperating with it are going to have a source of power available to them which would be a revolution—a planetary revolution. On that basis, mankind would get its feet out of the ditches of Earth itself. Because once you do that, once you go to a Helium-3 operation, milking the Sun regularly to get more Helium-3, and using that, which is an equivalent of what we’ve wanted to do here on Earth.
If we do that, then you have a source for high-speed—really high-speed, relative to anything we’ve done now—to moving around inside the area of the Solar System where we’re close to, such as Mars. I mean, the area with Mars and so forth, that area becomes open to us. Then the natural tendency, the natural ability of mankind, as our potential, will now begin to take over, not just sitting on Earth and grunting and groaning about what’s going on, but actually mankind not living out of Earth, but actually controlling things out of Earth, such as some of these asteroids. And we will use them—we’ll not only defense ourselves against them, we’ll use them.
So, therefore mankind will be moving off the surface of the Earth, not where he lives—though some of that may occur—but in terms of what mankind is able to reach and control, and develop for the benefit of mankind. And also we’ll begin to get more worried about building up the Solar System. We’ll begin to think about the long-term question of: Can we maintain the Solar System, which has been in a long period ofdecline over the recent times? Mars has collapsed because the Sun was running down. That’s why it collapsed. The Moon collapsed; it has been collapsing, because the Sun was running down.
So, therefore, our developing—not only utilizing, but developing—these resources like Helium-3 into a higher form of organization, mankind will become able, or enable if he chooses to do so, to actually take action against the continuing decline of a Sun which about to go dead in about 2 billion years, or something like that, and then go into an explosion which ends everything.
So, therefore we have before us, we have to have a different perspective than the poor idiots who are whimpering and whining about this and that. Because this is where we’re going.
Now, in this context, what’s the military situation? The trans-Atlantic region is building up for a war, a thermonuclear war in the early future. The intention of that war, as the Queen of England’s actions since Denmark and subsequently, is committed to the accelerated extermination of the human population to the degree of probably 1 billion people might be lucky to survive— or unlucky enough to survive under those conditions.
So, therefore, the option— The whole process here, look at it! What is the hatred against human beings? What’s the nature of it? What’s the expression of that? It’s the green policy! This was done by the Roman Empire and other forms of these kinds of people: to reduce the population, that is, to have a small oligarchy which dominates the planet, or parts of the planet, and kill off the excess population, which is the rest of the people. This is what the Queen’s policy is, and that is what she says it is.
So, who’s the key? Well, the key of this is the Anglo-Dutch system. The center of this whole operation that I just talked about, is the Anglo-Dutch initiative, which is really an empire which dominates—directly and indirectly combined—dominates the world, not only in its physical practice, but in its cultural extension: the green policy. How many greenies are there in the United States and in Europe? They’re all brainwashed. They’re condemned to extinction by the things they believe.
This is what happened to the Roman Empire. The Roman oligarchy got tired of trying to feed all these people, and began mass-killing them with experiments like in the arenas, and in the killing of the Christians. The mass-killing of the Christians was largely an extinction process. And then Rome as such collapsed; the Roman Empire collapsed upon itself. The remnants exist, and the wealthy Romans picked up their property, their jewels and so forth, moved up to the northern part of the Adriatic, sat around there in the mud for a while, and then became known as Venetians. Well, this is the new meaning for “Venetian blind,” and we have a lot of people who are Venetian blinds in that sense!
So, this is what we’re up against. We’re up against a phenomenon which is not uncommon in human history, and that is in known human history. And the story of Prometheus, as against Zeus, is a real story, it’s a true story, but it represents the typification of the kind of policy which we are faced with right now. The determination is, which is centered in expression in the Anglo-Dutch Empire, which is not limited to the British and the Dutch: It’s global. Australia! Most of Africa, the Middle East, the Saudi Kingdom, for example. These are all extension of this Empire, which is comparable in its intention to be something like the Roman Empire was.
So, we’ve had, in human history, we’ve had periods of large-scale extinction caused by an oligarchical tendency in some population, which goes out to kill people in the way that the people of Troy were extinguished. They weren’t just killed, they were extinguished! And that’s what we’re looking at now.
Now, go back to the strategic issue again. What’s the reality? The greatest power in the world, right now, lies in the Eurasian area. Why? It is growing. There are some parts that aren’t growing. But China is growing. Russia is growing—it’s reversed its population collapse. Other parts are growing. We now have a coalition emerging in Eurasia, which is not totally unified, but a very powerful part is there. The economy of that area of the world is improving. The policy of the trans-Atlantic region stinks, it’s dying, at an accelerating rate. As you know now, after January 1st of this year, that the death rate in this United States is going to accelerate immediately, unless we stop it.
That’s the key part of the story. But part of the answer to the question that was posed to us is, if we don’t have the guts to throw a crooked, evil President out of office to save the United States, that’s the problem. Forget all this thing about the coming several years, how things are going to work out. There’re not going to be a couple, several years, unless we change things.
Now we have, as I say, about 60% of the eligible voters in the United States have a rather strong and increasing inkling toward having this guy go away, in the very near future, that’s their desire. But at the same time that this development is occurring, what you have is the process in which the enemy, which includes our President, who’s the enemy of the people of the United States, his policies are the enemy of the survival of the United States. Look at his frauds, look at his fraud on his health-care fraud—he’s literally killing people en masse, and they’re sitting there, whining, but saying, “We have to work with this, we have to live with this guy.” And the others are saying, “I hate him.” And some are saying, “Let’s get rid of him.”
So that’s what the situation is. This is the reality. The idea of trying to explain things by some little explanation, and some source that tells you this fact and that fact—this is nonsense! We’re talking of a process which has been long known in the human species, in the human populations, have been engaging in these kinds of things, with an oligarchical movement killing off those who are of lesser power.
And that’s what’s happening again. The Queen has made it plain. Her husband has written it, others have written it; the Greenie movement entirely is part of that. Every Greenie that exists, pushing the Green policy, is actually an enemy of the human species, in just exactly that way. And why are we suffering in the United States? The Green policy killed us. The Greenie policy is what poisoned the United States.
The people of the United States as they’re born are becoming dumber and dumber and dumber, and worse than dumber, generation by generation—we call them successful degenerations. Their education stinks. Education in the schools today in the United States virtually does not exist. There’s a certain kind of show, manipulation, and cheap old show. But brain change? Brain development? Mind development? No, it doesn’t exist. It’s getting worse and worse and worse. And together with that degeneration of our young people in California, for example, with their thumb game—they’re insane! They’re not just dumb — they are dumb—but their dumbness takes a quality of insanity with this thumb and related business. The education system which produces this thumb-on-thumb is part of the degeneration.
So therefore the problem is, what do we do practically? That’s the question. You take all of these considerations which I’ve summarized. What do we do practically? We’ve got to reverse the education policy. We’ve got to reverse the Green policy—we’ve got to eliminate the Green policy. Without eliminating the Green policy, the United States can’t exist. And most of Europe can’t exist. Whole nations of Europe are about to disintegrate, disappear from the map.
And how can you stop it? Well, you have one factor. We have a factor in the Eurasian region, including Russia, China, and so forth; a number of powerful nations who are coming together, and forming an aggregation, not as an empire, but as a coalition. Their intention is growth. Their intention is typified by what China did, in landing on the Moon. And when you look a little closer at what is included in the features of that landing, you see here’s a nation which has picked up on something as a mission, which could be the salvation of the United States, if we would join in it.
There is no good reason for a war at this time in the world, no good reason. If you think the thermonuclear and related power, which can be assembled for a war of nearly most of the world, when you think of in terms of the thermonuclear and related capabilities, of military forces of the opposing forces from the trans-Atlantic and the Eurasian area, the possibility of extinction of the human species is sitting right before us.
The problem here is—what’s the problem? We have people who are like the poor guys, who didn’t have the authority. They know they were being, as they say, “screwed,” and worse and worse and worse. They know they’re losing their jobs, they’re losing their health care, they’re losing their education, they’re losing their relations with everybody. They’re being destroyed. They know it, and they hate it, more and more. But what are they doing to act, to free themselves of that problem? And that’s what’s lacking.
Now what happens is, what’s a typical person say, that knows this, that hates these guys, increasingly, but really doesn’t act effectively in any way? What’s the problem? “Well, I know you’re right, but I’m not going to say anything about it, I’m not going to do anything about it, because I’ve to take care of myself, my opportunities, my family, and so forth. Therefore, I’m not going to resist, I’m going to protest.” And will protesting, under those conditions, stop a thermonuclear war? No.
So the problem is, lies essentially with the man in the street in the United States. Because if the United States were to throw this bum, this so-called President, out of office, there would be a change in the ability of the typical citizen, to begin to begin to act to force a change in policy. Now the typical citizen does not want to have a part of a thermonuclear war. But what he’s going to say is, “I hope it doesn’t happen.” But this has to be made not to happen. And this requires that the people—I know these American people, I’m very familiar with them, over a longer period of time than most of you—and I know them. They have these feelings, a typical American tends to have a generally good tendency somewhere in them, about what they think the future should be. They think in terms of, you know, coming generations. They think that their children should somehow be better off or at least more secure, and have opportunities. And they know all this. And they hate it, because they’re accepting that being taken away from them. And from that comes the question of the ability of a small crew of dirty, evil thugs who seized as happened—right after Kennedy’s, after the President’s death. People caved in, they took it. People who had been at war, who had been warriors in a victorious war, caved in.
And we divided the American people against those who were kissing the butt of one class of people, a smaller number, and doing everything against the really vital interest and future interest of the majority of our people. And that’s the weakness, because of the corruption which has occurred with bad Presidents of the United States, with drug dealers, and simply with these characters on Wall Street. We tolerate these people, we allow them to subordinate our people, crush them, cheat them, loot them, kill them through the effects of what they do, and we can do nothing for our cause, the cause of the human species, the common interests of the American people in particular.
And that’s what I say. The greatest danger to us, because I know what the American people could do if they would throw Obama out of office, and that’s the only way that I see that the world can survive, avoid a thermonuclear war: If the American people were to throw Obama out of office, given the lack of popularity, estimating maybe running into 60% of our citizens, voting citizens, we could stop this. We would not allow the war to start! And if the United States would not start the war, it couldn’t be pulled off!
And that, I think, is the only reality to think about on this issue.
